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  1. Laqaur Rahman
  2. New Cars, Reviews
  3. Saturday, August 07 2021
Hi Gagan

I stay at Aurangabad- Bihar,

I want to purchase a new car. I am a first-time buyier. I want to purchase :
1. Cheapest
2. Safe (5-Star maybe)
3. 4-Cylinder
4. Very comfortable
5. Petrol, Manual
6. Family Car

I would consider myself very fortunate if we can have 3-4 mins of talk on phone.

We don't know about any such cars':
1. Re-Sale prospects,
2. On-Road Mileage,
3. Maintainance cost, etc.

Note: We have a couple of senior-citizens in our family.

We could not decide. Kindly, have a chat for atleast two mins. sir.

We also need some basic tips to purchase a car without being charged extra from the dealer.

It will be great if you could tell us the best on-road price of the car you suggest, so that dealership does not cheat on us.

Kindly let us know if I need to furnish anything else to select the appropriate car.

Thanks and Regards
L Rahman
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Hi,

Appreciate sharing in details. However to assist better we would seek some more info
1. Budget Range : with comfortable and maximum budget
2. Seating Capacity : 5 Seater or 7 Seater
3. Average Monthly Usage : in Kms
4. Conditions : Where would you be primarily using in car, in city or on highway or mix

Kind specify on above so as to assist on same.

Thanks


  1. more than a month ago
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  3. # 1
L Rahman Accepted Answer
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Before anything else, I must admit that your prompt reply is really impressive.
Now,
1. Budget Range : Comfortable: 7.5 Lakh; and Maximum: 10 Lakh (flexible in the range of 50k) [i.e., safety, and mileage is primary]
2. Seating Capacity : 5 Seater
3. Average Monthly Usage : Around 1,000 Kms
4. Conditions : Primarily using the car in city and on highway- both. That is, we have a Mix usage.
Note: Brezza is not preferred.
Kindly let us know if any other particlar detail is sought.
  1. more than a month ago
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  3. # 2
L Rahman Accepted Answer
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We really appreciate your prompt reply.

1. Budget Range : Comfortable: 7.5 Lakh (On-Road) and Maximum Budget: 10Lakh (On-Road) [flexible in the range of 50k; i.e., Safety and mileage are primary]
2. Seating Capacity : 5 Seater
3. Average Monthly Usage : less than or equal to1000 Kms
4. Conditions : Primarily using the car in city and on highway- Both.That is, we have a Mix usage.
Note: Brezza is not preferred
We will be happy to furnish any necessary further details.
  1. more than a month ago
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  3. # 3
Gagan Modi Accepted Answer
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Dear Rahman Sahab,

Greetings !!
Thanks for sharing in details

Yes - Safety, Mileage, Comfort, Resale, Low Maintenance and Engine NVH been 4 cylinder Engine - thats like a dream for every car buyer
Although this looks like core - but be assured its very difficult for car manufacturers to incorporate everything in one car. Still the closest match basis preference set as referred - i can recommend 2 car for your need which is

Mahindra XUV300 W6 Petrol with reasons to it
> India 5 Star Safety Rated car with highest score in safety aspect. You just dont have to looks elsewhere. The Model which Global NCAP picked for safety crash test was lower rung model having similar safety as in W6

> Despite of SUV - is one car which offers suspension tuned towards comfort oriented ride. You will love in suspension dynamics which aids in plushness and comfort ride

> As you seek a Family car with Parents to be in. Be assured Ingress and Egress is a breeze and XUV300 offers generous legroom to be at comfort. Infact one among few Compact SUV Cars offers generous space in cabin.

> In terms of Maintenance cost - well every 3 year / 30,000 Kms is a Major service and rest are competitive service cost
You can prehand check on XUV300 Service Cost

Expect average paid service bill of Rs 5500 to 6000 - which i believe is fair competitive
To get the very best pls have idling concept applied for first time start in morning and whenever coming after high speed drive.

> Also, not only comfort you can have fair impressive performance in Turbo Petrol Engine.
Pickup is great and will love in performance aspect

> Mileage is subjective. Been this car comes in 6 Gear depends. if you drive in with relaxed foot then 12 Kmpl can be a reasonable expectation in city and anything around 16 Kmpl on highway can be what achieved.

What you wont like
> 3 cylinder Engine and noise levels on higher speed or when driven on bad roads can be felt in cabin
> Boot Space which is like smallest in segment.
> Interiors are just average
> Price Point where car on road price touches to upper end of budget. Post discounts and all will touch in close to 10.75 lakh on road in Bihar

Alternate Recommendation
If you decided to go ahead with 4 cylinder Petrol Engine and seek comfort, space, competitive maintenance then Honda WRV SV can be a great pick for need as specified with reasons

> Yes is a 4 cylinder Petrol Engine

> Suspension dynamics are pretty impressive. Although not as soft as XUV300 - but car just offers right kind of suspension to take experience on most of city, bad roads at absolute ease. You wont find it stiff, yet car glides on bad roads easily

> Is a car for relaxed drive. This 1.2 Litre engine is best when you drive in with light foot

> Space is decent in terms of legroom, although this car is raised and headroom would be slight tight for taller passengers with small head rest too. But if have someone of height 5'5" or lesser height on rear seat - no issue

> This car is very stable and yes door feels sturdy (Amaze scored 4 star in Global NCAP. Although WRV crash test not performed, but be assured its a notch better than Amaze)

> Ingress and Egress is fair good

> Honda Reliability and fact that WRV Service schedule is once a year - service cost will end up been competitive
Remember Honda has longer replacement of filter and coolant / consumable. This makes service cost under control

> Mileage depends on way car been driven, but anything around 12 to 13 Kmpl can be a reasonable expectation

What you wont like in WRV
> Gear shifts are relative on stiffer note
> This car as referred earlier has limited headroom space for taller passenger on rear seat and somehow smaller fixed headrest are not appreciated
> Performance is best when you drive in relaxed way, but if you like performance with a strong range then WRV can disappont. Its not as quicker as most of Turbo petrol engine cars in segment offers

But overall at around 10 Lakh on road this car can be a great pick basis overall value

My recommendation
Test drive and experience in
> Mahindra XUV300 Petrol
> Honda WRV

and share in your experience with dealer quite
Deal specifics are something which is secondary, first thing is to shortlist a car which matches in requirements.

Hope should help !!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. New Cars, Reviews
  3. # 4
L Rahman Accepted Answer
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Hi Gagan

Wow. Honestly, I did not expect this much detailed help. I really feel relieved.
Given the Car Price Rise-Rush, timely and correct consultation is very important, in my view. Profits and losses apart, you are, in a way, serving the society.
Views apart, I must mention, that, since I plan to buy a car, I have been looking for cars for about a month.
Given the factors like:
1. Re-Sale value
2. Mileage
3. Safety Ratings
4. 4-Cylinder Petrol Manual Vehicle*
5. Comfort (suspension)
6. Budget,
I selected Maruti Suzuki S-Cross and Honda Amaze.
My budget asked me to go for Amaze. But, Amaze had a suspension, smaller engine, Safety and Mileage issues. And, now that you have suggested W-RV, pictures are more clear.
Since, maybe we cannot afford this much of an investment twice, we agreed to stretch our budget.

Streaching the budget, if we go for Maruti Suzuki S-Cross Zeta Manual; what are your suggestions on this?

Should we proceed? or, there is a word of caution?

Given this price point, do we have any other (better)options?

Note: We can not exceed an inch further in our budget.

Thanks and Regards
L Rahman


  1. more than a month ago
  2. New Cars, Reviews
  3. # 5
Gagan Modi Accepted Answer
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Hi,

S Cross is a great pick in Zeta Model - would cost in around 11 Lakh on road in your zone
> Spacious
> Feature Loaded
> 4 Star Safety Rated One
> Maruti Suzuki Stable car with proven after sales, engine

But this car comes with stiffer suspension set up, you will not find ride as comfort oriented as otherwise is in Brezza due to same.

Secondly, although highway dynamics are better, stability is good and sheet metal quality still feels impressive but an area of apprehension is that S cross based on heartect platform and somehow
> Indian S Cross safety crash test rating not available (even if ignore this fact)
> Heartect platform as used in other Maruti Cars did not performed well. Ertiga scored 3 star, Swift & Wagon R 2 star, S Presso 0 Star

With Seltos ratings available as shocking 3 star with structure marked unstable - a feel of doubt is always there on the build aspect of S Cross too

Honda Amaze: Well had usage been restricted to maximum use in city (90%+) then can consider Amaze for soft suspension
But if part usage on highway
> Steering feedback
> Suspension
> Thinner R175 tyres
do not inspire confidence on highway dynamics

WRV SV would end up as better all round pick over Amaze due to
> Grip Levels
> Handling Character
> Feels relative better build and upmarket

But seek even better (with a slight compromise on interior aesthetics, noise levels) - be assured Mahindra XUV300 W6 is a great all round pick in Safety, Performance, Ease of INgress and Egress, Space, Handling, Comfort.

Hope should help !!
  1. more than a month ago
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  3. # 6
L Rahman Accepted Answer
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Hi Gagan

You are very much right about the unreliable heartect platform of Maruti Suzuki. I am really thankful that you brought this fact to light.
That's why consultation is very important. A customer very oftenly get blinded by what we call fluency illusion.
Secondly, you rightly caught me on Brezza. It's stiffer suspension and bad seating geometry/quality made me wary..:)
Thirdly, Xuv 300 is undoubtedly great. I have only one issue with it. It's engine. It's platform may be stable, but, it's engine is an unbalanced 3 cylinder engine with a flywheel to compensate for the fourth one.
During our engineering classes, professors would make student a laughing stock if he somehow enquires about a 3 cylinder engines' pros. A frofessor from IIT Delhi would question, if, why even purchase 3 cylinder Wagon R! These 3 cylinder engines are more or less Maruti omini with a hammer hanging down its crankshaft.
Once, when I insisted about the torque factor which kicks in and given that big giants like Volkswagan make it, he made me solve 10 balancing problems and concluded if 3 cylinder engines are but bound to be unstable. Just for market gains it is not advisable to move backwards in time towards 2 stroke engines or motorcycle engines with a heavy flywheel attatched to the crankshaft, a professor from IISC Bangalore said.
So, I have quite a mental stigma towards 3 cylinder vehicles.

But, given good safety standards as a parameter, it really gets difficult to look for a budget 4 cylinder engine.
Undoubtedly, Mahindra and Tata are manufacturing very good cars per say safety ratings, but their engines are not satisfactory.

Could we expect, a launch of 5 Star rated 4 cylinder Petrol budget car in a very near future from any of the leading giants in the Indian car industry? Or, is there any?

It was this complicated confusion which once led me to consider Toyota Yaris (Base Model). But, after consultation with daily drivers, I came to know that it is a high maintainance vehicle, or Not?

Every thing is good about Honda WR-V. Except three things: 1. It has also not been crash tested. 2. It has quite a low mileage, and, 3. Smaller Amaze Engine in a SUV.

On a lighter note, Now I understand why you own a Honda City :)

Now, Gagan, given my mind set, what do you suggest : Honda W-RV, Maruti Suzuki S-Cross, Toyota Yaris (Base Model), XUV - 300, Maruti Suzuki Brezza, or SOMETHING EVEN BETTER in the range of S-Cross, maybe?

Thanks and Regards
L Rahman
  1. more than a month ago
  2. New Cars, Reviews
  3. # 7
Gagan Modi Accepted Answer
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Rahman Sahab,

I do understand that 3 cylinder engine, but be assured what were as taught in books is so much different in real world
The kind of enhancements, improvisation as what happening made these 3 cylinder engines so much competent and less vocal.

Even though if you still dont wish to go ahead with 3 cylinder ones - would still recommend to have test drive to have that stigma corrected.
1. Toyota Yaris is a great pick - but production stopped, car discontinued and stock clearance almost happened. Barely any base models available in market. If any you will get middle to top of line model and that too have to make a check

2. Honda city 4th Gen - A Great pick but Service part, you would have to shelve in Rs 10K as annual service cost and yeah 4th Gen city as sold in India was not crash tested too

3. Brezza : Provided yester year interior aesthetics, plastic quality and slight upright rear seats is not a concern area. A Grear choice

Overall
If you feel like to have
> 4 cylinder Petrol Engine
> Reasonable Satisfactory Safety aspect
> Competitive Maintenance
> Good Performance
> Cost of Ownership (Resale, Fuel Efficiency & Maintenance)

and dont seek to exceed in budget, pls experience in Brezza Zxi Manual (although you referred no) or even better Toyota Urban Cruiser High Model.
Be assured - theres no harm in this car once you experience it.

Else for 3 cylinder one - already recommended in XUV300 as recommended pick

Hope should help !!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. New Cars, Reviews
  3. # 8
L Rahman Accepted Answer
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Hi Gagan
Hope you are doing well.
We had a full blown out debate and discussion for couple of days, if, on which car to invest.
Upon your precious input and our family discussion, some important questions have cropped up.
I shall enquire them one by one in different messages, so that, there is no confusion what so ever.
This text is to ask that what are your reviews on Ertiga. Which is the most suitable variant to buy? What are it's pros and cons?
Is there a better 7 seater available in 10-11 lakh range?
Note: We have mileage, and then, safety in our order of priority, if safety rating is not too as low as 3 stars.

Thanks and Regards
L Rahman
  1. more than a month ago
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  3. # 9
L Rahman Accepted Answer
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Hi Gagan

I hope you will reply our previous query. We are at a very important juncture of decision making.

This is to ask, if, can we expect sooner or later 5 Star Rated TOYOTA Rush?
If yes, will it be in 10lakh or 15 lakh range?

Thanks and regards
L Rahman
  1. more than a month ago
  2. New Cars, Reviews
  3. # 10
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Hi,

Rush
Although rumors are in place since 2013 but there are no signs of Toyota Rush launch as of now.
As an manufacturer Toyota strategy is quiet impacted due to
> Changing Government rules w.r.t Diesel Cars ban of 10 yrs in Delhi, High Tax Impact, Differential of higher road tax
> Indian consumers not well taking in recent launches of Toyota in mass segment been Liva, Etios, Yaris all ends now

Fact that they taking cross sell approach through Suzuki Products to retain in deler network in generating volumes
So - Toyota Rush not coming in India atleast at present

Details specified in video


Ertiga
3 Star Rated Car, defies the initial criteria of 5 star rated one and explained earlier too.
Also, been an MPV Mileage wont be as great too.

Somehow changing requirement now to 3 star is like changing in preference of cars and many models can come in that range
You have to finalize on what is the core requirement and select in.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. New Cars, Reviews
  3. # 11
L Rahman Accepted Answer
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Hi Gagan

You are right Gagan. We can not get everything in one car.
Another obvious question that arises from our discussion is that:
If at all we have to consider a 3 cylinder car. Why not a cheaper 5 star rated car like TATA Altroz?
What's wrong with Altroz, or Nexon?

That is to say. Tell us of cheapest 2-3 cars with 3 cylinders which are 5 star rated.

And, an aside, does maruti suzuki have a more stable-strong 5 star rated platform in pipeline? Mileage and resale value is really a concern Gagan. Fuel prices are soaring. But, at the same time we cannot compromise with safety.

We have almost reached to a decision. And, I must tell you, what is in our minds!!

We have concluded that, either we buy a - Costlier (somewhat outside budget) - 5 Star Rated vehicle, which has a decent/good mileage and resale value and is comfortable; because, we do not make such purchases twice. But not a diesel car.
Or, we make an immediate purchase of CHEAPEST 5-Star rated vehicle in the market. Mileage, cylinders, resale value remains un-considered.
or, we adopt a middle path of all and right away purchase Suzuki- S Cross.

How is S-cross as compared to Ertiga?

Kindly suggest accordingly.

Sorry for complicating things a bit. But, we are not a pro in this field. It will be very kind of you if can you please help.

Thanks and Regards
L Rahman
  1. more than a month ago
  2. New Cars, Reviews
  3. # 12
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Hello,

Looks like you are going with books and not real world scenario
> Altroz 1.2 Naturally aspirated Petrol engine
> Nexon 1.2 Petrol Engine has considerable

Suggest to check on MyCarHelpline reviews section and explore in reviews to assist better. Here is Car Reviews Link

If
> Mileage
> Resale
> Maintenance

is a core concern area then may be look beyond Tata

S Cross: Already shared view reply#6

To Make it easy for you
Closest Match basis :- Safety, Mileage, Resale, Maintenance, 4 Cylinder Petrol, Comfort oriented ride is - Brezza Zxi or Urban Cruiser High Model.

or

If seek uncompromised safety, performance in a car which is what value priced basis suspension offering comfort, space and competitive service cost - Mahindra XUV300 W6 Petrol

Suggest to spend some time with these cars !!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. New Cars, Reviews
  3. # 13
L Rahman Accepted Answer
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Hi Gagan

This is to inquire about what you recommended - Mahindra.
Today Mahindra launched XUV-700.
You would have guessed by now, that, I am not here to enquire that.
I am here to enquire something in relation with XUV-300 engine. Yes, 1.2L m-Stallion Engine. It is a 3-Cyl engine. I reviewed it. It is an updated good engine.
But, what fascinates me is that Mahindra also has 1.5L m-Stallion Turbocharged Gasoline Engine. And, it is a four Cylinder Engine. However, Mahindra has yet not introduced it yet. Or, has it?

1. By when and in which model should I expect that? XUV-500? Marrazzo? ____?

2. What could be it's price Range?

3. What is the Price of XUV-700 base model Price? What would be its Mileage?

See Gagan, from our Calculation, 1.5L m-Stallion TurboCharged Petrol engine - powerd vehicle by Mahindra, is probably what fulfills all the criteria, I mentioned initially. Ofcourse, we are ready to compromise on Mileage and Pricing.
But, the critical question is: when to expect that vehicle?

What do you say about all these?

Thanks and Regards
L Rahman
  1. more than a month ago
  2. New Cars, Reviews
  3. # 14
Gagan Modi Accepted Answer
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Mahindra has plans to introduce in MStallion GDI Petrol Engine in its range of cars.
With XUV700 gets in 2 Litre.
Expected that Marazzo will feature in 1.5 Litre
Sub 4 Meter Cars like XUV300 will feature in 1.2 Litre (as larger capacity engine in cars with > 1.2 Litre) will pitch car towards 45% tax bracket losing advantage of cost competitiveness.

As of now can just make a guess that 1.5 Litre & 1.2 Litre MStallion engine may feature somehwhere in 2922
For XUV700 - pls refer blog post on Mahindra XUV700

Been a larger 2 Litre Petrol engine plonked in a SUV with over 1.5 Tonne kerb weight - mileage bound to go for a toss.
Rest official figures not yet disclosed.
  1. more than a month ago
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  3. # 15
L Rahman Accepted Answer
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Hi Gagan

You said in your last reply:
"As of now can just make a guess that 1.5 Litre & 1.2 Litre MStallion engine may feature somehwhere in 2922"

I don't get what you meant by 2922?

Very Important: Does XUV 300 does not get 1.2 Litre MStallion engine???

Do we get New Gasoline Marazzo by year's end?

Looking at the aggressive pricing of XUV700 base model. I guess, Marazzo will give stiff competition to S-Cross and Ertiga - PRICE WISE.
What do you say?

And, really thank you. You helped me shed the three cylinder stigma. Now I openly consider to purchase XUV 300.

Now, I have three options in my mind:
1. Buy S-Cross (Sale it when Marazzo is launched and time tested on road and market), and purchase 1.5 Litre MStallion engine.
2. Buy XUV-300. But, I am now hesitant about it, because of its very compactness. Lesser thigh support. [I know its engine's capability is at par with suzuki 1.5 litre engine, with far better safety and other features].
3. Buy Ertiga, make initial personal use; deploy commercially. When budget allows, buy Marazzo. (Because, Ertiga has safety issues.)

It looks like, we are getting on the same page.

Thanks and regards
L Rahman
  1. more than a month ago
  2. New Cars, Reviews
  3. # 16
Gagan Modi Accepted Answer
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Hi,

I don't get what you meant by 2922?

Regret, Typo Error - meant 2022

Very Important: Does XUV 300 does not get 1.2 Litre MStallion engine???

Nop, MStallion are latest engines as created and somehow XUV300 as of now having TGDI Petrol which is not MStallion one
Its expected that once the car gets MStallion Petrol Engine (expectedly in 2022) will get bump in power with 130 PS Power and 230 NM Torque

Do we get New Gasoline Marazzo by year's end?
As of now no updates or event hints available for launch in 2021

Looking at the aggressive pricing of XUV700 base model. I guess, Marazzo will give stiff competition to S-Cross and Ertiga - PRICE WISE.
What do you say?

S Cross is not a competition in line with Marazzo
Somehow Marazzo prices been continually increased and whenever MStallion Petrol engine will come in - expect prices to still be higher - can comment that base model of Marazzo will still cost higher than top model of Ertiga and that too by a substantial margin

1. Buy S-Cross (Sale it when Marazzo is launched and time tested on road and market), and purchase 1.5 Litre MStallion engine.

Car is depreciating. You will lose a lot value in first 2 yrs
Rather buy a used car if you really want to go ahead in same way

2. Buy XUV-300. But, I am now hesitant about it, because of its very compactness. Lesser thigh support. [I know its engine's capability is at par with suzuki 1.5 litre engine, with far better safety and other features].

Ok as what you deem fit,
am of the view - that one should listen to his heart and mind in making a choice without compromise

3. Buy Ertiga, make initial personal use; deploy commercially. When budget allows, buy Marazzo. (Because, Ertiga has safety issues.)

Can consider. Ertiga is a great impressive choice in space, features
Remember from safety aspect - the first and foremost is driver skills and speed
If anyone messes on same then no amount of safety features or build is useful
So as long as you
> Drive in controlled speed
> Follow in Traffic rules

no reason why Ertiga wont offeryou good safety experience.
Pls refer this video on Maruti Cars Safety


Hopefully should help !!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. New Cars, Reviews
  3. # 17
L Rahman Accepted Answer
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Hi Gagan

One more question, before the final purchase.
We have zeroed in to S-Cross Zetta.
We are going for the test drive next week.
Since, we are the first time buyers, Is there any piece of advice/caution as we move towards next phase of our car purchase?

There is quite a rumour of a Next generation S-Cross with Plugin Hybrid Power Train. Lest this happen, we make this purchase and in couple of months we get this new generation with more mileage, etc.
or, they have traded the next gen. S-Cross with Toyota!!
What is the exact picture?

Thanks and Regards
L Rahman
  1. more than a month ago
  2. New Cars, Reviews
  3. # 18
Gagan Modi Accepted Answer
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Hi,

Its a rumor only for 'Next generation S-Cross with Plugin Hybrid Power Train'
Theres no such car coming in 2021 atleast
Be assured for same

Pls read this brief writeup on S Cross Review before making a purchase call

Hope should help !!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. New Cars, Reviews
  3. # 19
L Rahman Accepted Answer
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Hi Gagan

Is this quotation okay? or, misleading?
Should I ask for a more detailed quotation?
What are the specific details in the quotation - I must focus on?
or,
We should proceed?

Thanks and Regards
L Rahman
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  1. more than a month ago
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